Oh god, this is probably the most loaded question I have ever asked.
Seriously, it is. I mean, where do I even get off asking such a question, right?
Well, I began to think about things while sitting alone in the dark with only my idiot brain to keep me company. And also, I do this to make sure that I DON'T make Nel spiral down into that hated place.
So, to ask the question, let's really define what Gary Stu means.
Gary Stu is the male version of Mary Sue, a very hated word among many fanfic writers. And it was coined from an old 1970s fanfic that details Lieutenant Mary Sue getting it on with James T Kirk, and that she was this perfect, can do no wrong, person who was awesome.
Yes, this word is older than I am. The term itself and its definition is almost 40 years old. Nearly half a century old, people!
But it really didn't come to the fore of many fanfic writers until the invention of the Internet when fanfiction could be more readily read and easily accessed...rather than sharing some notebook of your scribblings during Algebra to your BFF.
I was guilty of that during my Junior High and High School days, sharing notebooks I'd carry around with my girlfriends and have them read them.
One of them took the liberty to start correcting spelling and grammar...
And the biggest joke ever made was when I made a horrible object switch in an old Pern fanfic I wrote...in which my Mary Sue character (yes I was guilty of that myself then) who rode a gold dragon, ended up throwing said dragon's eyes around its neck...
The scene was supposed to be my Mary Sue hugging the dragon "Throwing her arms around the dragon's neck." But replaced arms with eyes, and it got funny. And horrible. I swear to God, to this day, both Lia and Isabelle never let me forget that huge mistake.
And I still have the notebook that has that stupid fic as well.
But I was a 15-year old teenager who was still trying to develop her skills. So, writing a Mary Sue is often a case for either untalented or beginner writers who have yet to grasp the concept of character development and or study.
Subject A: Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way.
So let's define really what a Mary Sue is.
And I love this definition taken from this guy's video...
He states that a Mary Sue is: "A Character who is so perfect that they are never challenged by the narrative."
And that's a pretty simple, but excellent way of really understanding the core of what a Mary Sue is.
And really, what Neltharion is NOT.
And there is where I get the people why state: Well, if you state that your character isn't a Mary Sue, then it's obviously that he or she actually is.
But really, to understand why I can in fact defend that Nel isn't a Gary Stu, unlike most people who do write Mary Sue characters and though claim up and down that those characters aren't...but in fact are...it boils down again to the narrative and why I have people like
making sure that Neltharion NEVER reaches that status.
Now if we were to put Neltharion to the Mary Sue test, he just might well..."pass with flying colors" as in...yeah, he is, because well...the test itself measures whether or not the character is superpowered and can pretty much do anything he or she wants within their world.
Neltharion is a 13 million ton dragon god who can manipulate matter on a near subatomic level, and can lift a continent up as if he was lifting a down feather. He is the representation of mass, one part of Einstein's Spacial Relativity Equation. He is one part of the greater whole that makes up the very building blocks of the universe and an manipulate those blocks with such precision, that eventually, he can in fact turn lead into gold. And when Neltharion combines his powers with Malygos, can in fact create matter-energy conversion. As in, convert one to the other, and back again.
With his mind.
Neltharion in Wrath of the Warchief could in fact crystalize water and turn it into something I call Warm Ice. As in, create the crystallization bonds that is needed to create ice in the first place without making the water cold.
He could in fact make molten steel if he wanted, and make said molten steel room temperature.
Neltharion's true power is over the phase transitions of matter itself, utilizing his innate understanding of the Laws of Thermodynamics. He can perform melting, vaporization, and perhaps eventually ionization. He can also deionize any matter, condensation, and at last freezing. He can also skip matter phases as well with sublimation, and deposition.
And to a lesser degree, because he can manipulate mass and matter, I have no doubt he can manipulate gravity. Hell, he can utilize his own variant of electrical charges, meaning he tosses around lightning.
I was not joking with that image.
The airships that Garrosh use in my stories are built from Neltharion's knowledge of how gravity works, and how electromagnetism works. In short, yes, Neltharion could, if he wanted to, he could in fact repel gravity. Or make it so much worse on a person.
He also can withstand the heat and pressure of being inside the core of a planet that's over 6.6 sextillion tons of mass. Whereas most of us would be crushed and our carbon squeezed out to create a diamond. And someday, he might be able to survive the core of a star as well...but we're not getting that close to crazy powers yet.
has stated that Neltharion's power, when measured by TV Trope's Super Weight scale...is in fact a Tier 5+, as in, he's between a 5 and a 6.
Tier 5 are characters that have abilities that can affect an entire world, either positively or negatively, or may even be a manifestation of a planet, with all that implies.
And a Tier 6 is Characters that are this powerful aren't so much characters as forces of nature, wielding power beyond observable human science.
And Neltharion is sandwiched between those two Tiers.
He is for all lack of a better term, the manifestation of Azeroth who can wield powers that modern science cannot even fathom, nor even try to explain. Pretty much, when it comes to Neltharion's powers and how he shits on the Square Cubed Law...I think modern science has a better time of explaining black holes than Neltharion.
So, yeah, with all that power, that means he's a total Sue! Right?
Nope.
Again, let's look at the definition: "A character who isn't challenged by the narrative..."
Neltharion is challenged to no end by the narrative. He's not halted by the narrative either, more rather, he stumbles a lot because of himself. Neltharion, regardless to his physical abilities, and physical nigh-invulnerable nature, is literally made of rice paper.
He is easily torn and easily broken. Many, many times.
He's very easily the weakest character, in terms of strength that is...mental strength. His character is strong narratively because of his weakness grounding him.
Why? Because when I started even thinking about redeeming Deathwing, before Romancing the Coffer was even written, I began to wonder what all Neltharion went through under the influence of the Old Gods would affect him.
If in the first chapter of the Coffer, when Neltharion is saved, he wakes up and is back to normal...with everyone treating him with respect regardless to what Deathwing did, and Neltharion himself is mentally strong and capable...then that would have made Neltharion a Gary Stu.
Having Neltharion come out of that unphased and the world just forgetting 10k years of what all Deathwing has done puts no challenge for Neltharion as a character. He's not challenged by himself, he's not challenged by the other characters.
Pretty much all of that would have been no point to his redemption. Why redeem him if you can't really explore what it means to be a villain who is redeemed?
Or saved...or whatever he is.
But in the Coffer, Neltharion comes out and the world isn't happy sunshine and rainbows. Deathwing is gone, but his deeds are still there. Neltharion's flight is nearly extinct. And Neltharion himself is an emotional wreck who makes bad decisions, latches onto anyone he can because he can't stand on his own two feet, and has a drinking problem. On top of that, nearly 60 thousand years of his life has been erased because he has lost that memory. And he oversimplifies thing as a means to cope with the torment he went through.
And he has very little friends.
Hell if anyone that would better fit the Gary Stu thing is Thrall.
Thrall is the only mortal who, according to the books, was the one who saved Neltharion. A mortal, who saved a god. When all other gods could not do the same.
That, within the context it's written, makes Thrall more powerful than the dragon who can bench press a planet.
Which is why we don't see Thrall much in my stories. Because he's so powerful.
Yeah, think on that for a moment.
Thrall is much more powerful than Neltharion, at least in context of what he did and how he was able to do it.
In reality, no, he's not more powerful than Neltharion...quite the opposite.
Within the context of Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way's universe, she's more powerful than Neltharion.
As the video states, Eboy faces each challenge and succeeds. She is not hindered by any of the antagonists who oppose her. And hell, she doesn't even change or grow as a character, learn some deeper meaning about herself, or the world around her. She stays the same. She is stagnate.
Neltharion on the other hand, despite having powers that make some physicists orgasm in happiness because they can play around with his abilities and see what he can do, or cry tears of agony, is still challenged by the world around him.
His godly powers don't hand everything to him or make things easier for him. In fact, his power makes things more difficult because he...much like Superman, walks around in a World of Cardboard.
And Neltharion's past also presents another challenge to him. It's been three years after the Cataclysm, and the destruction Deathwing had cause is still very fresh in people's minds. So many people are less likely to even befriend him or even trust him because of that past.
Varian, though having an uneasy truce with Neltharion, doesn't trust him but understands that it is better to have Neltharion on his side than not. But that doesn't make them best friends. Far from it.
Garrosh on the other hand knows that to conquer Azeroth completely, he has to completely conquer Neltharion. And he knows that using brute strength against Neltharion isn't the way to go. Neltharion cannot be bested by brute strength, only with intelligence and subtlety. And because of this, he can challenge Neltharion...the being who commands an entire planet.
But no one can challenge Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way.
And the same can be said about Godzilla, which is why so many G-fans state that Godzilla can smash Neltharion's face in.
But when these characters are taken out of the context within their universe and placed onto the playing field against Neltharion...both characters will be instantly crushed under Neltharion's 13 million ton fat ass.
I guess I wrote this because of that idiot who stated Neltharion felt more like Draco in Leather Pants to him. As in, a villain dumbed down for the fantasies of the female writer.
While I do gush on about how cute and adorable Neltharion is. Because...
Dah face!
I mean who wouldn't? But I've never soften anything when it came to Neltharion. He may be cute and adorable, but I still pretty much deliver a lot of pounding to himself despite his cuteness.
Because he's so friggin powerful, I need to find more creative ideas in how to challenge him.
Hell, that's a sign of a strong writer, a writer who creates a very powerful character, but is still able to challenge that character even by having antagonists who challenge said character, but also are less powerful than said character.
It's why I keep equating Neltharion and Garrosh's rivalry to Superman and Lex Luthor. Neltharion is being challenged by someone who is clearly his opposite. Garrosh in my stories is smarter, more subtle, and has loyal followers that can back him.
Neltharion is as subtle as a minstrel show appearing at the Million Man March.
HE'S NOT SUBTLE AT ALL! And he doesn't have many loyal followers.
He's lucky to have Malygos and the black dragons he's got.
So, there you go.
And I love this definition taken from this guy's video...
He states that a Mary Sue is: "A Character who is so perfect that they are never challenged by the narrative."
And that's a pretty simple, but excellent way of really understanding the core of what a Mary Sue is.
And really, what Neltharion is NOT.
And there is where I get the people why state: Well, if you state that your character isn't a Mary Sue, then it's obviously that he or she actually is.
But really, to understand why I can in fact defend that Nel isn't a Gary Stu, unlike most people who do write Mary Sue characters and though claim up and down that those characters aren't...but in fact are...it boils down again to the narrative and why I have people like
making sure that Neltharion NEVER reaches that status.Now if we were to put Neltharion to the Mary Sue test, he just might well..."pass with flying colors" as in...yeah, he is, because well...the test itself measures whether or not the character is superpowered and can pretty much do anything he or she wants within their world.
Neltharion is a 13 million ton dragon god who can manipulate matter on a near subatomic level, and can lift a continent up as if he was lifting a down feather. He is the representation of mass, one part of Einstein's Spacial Relativity Equation. He is one part of the greater whole that makes up the very building blocks of the universe and an manipulate those blocks with such precision, that eventually, he can in fact turn lead into gold. And when Neltharion combines his powers with Malygos, can in fact create matter-energy conversion. As in, convert one to the other, and back again.
With his mind.
Neltharion in Wrath of the Warchief could in fact crystalize water and turn it into something I call Warm Ice. As in, create the crystallization bonds that is needed to create ice in the first place without making the water cold.
He could in fact make molten steel if he wanted, and make said molten steel room temperature.
Neltharion's true power is over the phase transitions of matter itself, utilizing his innate understanding of the Laws of Thermodynamics. He can perform melting, vaporization, and perhaps eventually ionization. He can also deionize any matter, condensation, and at last freezing. He can also skip matter phases as well with sublimation, and deposition.
And to a lesser degree, because he can manipulate mass and matter, I have no doubt he can manipulate gravity. Hell, he can utilize his own variant of electrical charges, meaning he tosses around lightning.
I was not joking with that image.
The airships that Garrosh use in my stories are built from Neltharion's knowledge of how gravity works, and how electromagnetism works. In short, yes, Neltharion could, if he wanted to, he could in fact repel gravity. Or make it so much worse on a person.
He also can withstand the heat and pressure of being inside the core of a planet that's over 6.6 sextillion tons of mass. Whereas most of us would be crushed and our carbon squeezed out to create a diamond. And someday, he might be able to survive the core of a star as well...but we're not getting that close to crazy powers yet.
has stated that Neltharion's power, when measured by TV Trope's Super Weight scale...is in fact a Tier 5+, as in, he's between a 5 and a 6.Tier 5 are characters that have abilities that can affect an entire world, either positively or negatively, or may even be a manifestation of a planet, with all that implies.
And a Tier 6 is Characters that are this powerful aren't so much characters as forces of nature, wielding power beyond observable human science.
And Neltharion is sandwiched between those two Tiers.
He is for all lack of a better term, the manifestation of Azeroth who can wield powers that modern science cannot even fathom, nor even try to explain. Pretty much, when it comes to Neltharion's powers and how he shits on the Square Cubed Law...I think modern science has a better time of explaining black holes than Neltharion.
So, yeah, with all that power, that means he's a total Sue! Right?
Nope.
Again, let's look at the definition: "A character who isn't challenged by the narrative..."
Neltharion is challenged to no end by the narrative. He's not halted by the narrative either, more rather, he stumbles a lot because of himself. Neltharion, regardless to his physical abilities, and physical nigh-invulnerable nature, is literally made of rice paper.
He is easily torn and easily broken. Many, many times.
He's very easily the weakest character, in terms of strength that is...mental strength. His character is strong narratively because of his weakness grounding him.
Why? Because when I started even thinking about redeeming Deathwing, before Romancing the Coffer was even written, I began to wonder what all Neltharion went through under the influence of the Old Gods would affect him.
If in the first chapter of the Coffer, when Neltharion is saved, he wakes up and is back to normal...with everyone treating him with respect regardless to what Deathwing did, and Neltharion himself is mentally strong and capable...then that would have made Neltharion a Gary Stu.
Having Neltharion come out of that unphased and the world just forgetting 10k years of what all Deathwing has done puts no challenge for Neltharion as a character. He's not challenged by himself, he's not challenged by the other characters.
Pretty much all of that would have been no point to his redemption. Why redeem him if you can't really explore what it means to be a villain who is redeemed?
Or saved...or whatever he is.
But in the Coffer, Neltharion comes out and the world isn't happy sunshine and rainbows. Deathwing is gone, but his deeds are still there. Neltharion's flight is nearly extinct. And Neltharion himself is an emotional wreck who makes bad decisions, latches onto anyone he can because he can't stand on his own two feet, and has a drinking problem. On top of that, nearly 60 thousand years of his life has been erased because he has lost that memory. And he oversimplifies thing as a means to cope with the torment he went through.
And he has very little friends.
Hell if anyone that would better fit the Gary Stu thing is Thrall.
Thrall is the only mortal who, according to the books, was the one who saved Neltharion. A mortal, who saved a god. When all other gods could not do the same.
That, within the context it's written, makes Thrall more powerful than the dragon who can bench press a planet.
Which is why we don't see Thrall much in my stories. Because he's so powerful.
Yeah, think on that for a moment.
Thrall is much more powerful than Neltharion, at least in context of what he did and how he was able to do it.
In reality, no, he's not more powerful than Neltharion...quite the opposite.
Within the context of Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way's universe, she's more powerful than Neltharion.
As the video states, Eboy faces each challenge and succeeds. She is not hindered by any of the antagonists who oppose her. And hell, she doesn't even change or grow as a character, learn some deeper meaning about herself, or the world around her. She stays the same. She is stagnate.
Neltharion on the other hand, despite having powers that make some physicists orgasm in happiness because they can play around with his abilities and see what he can do, or cry tears of agony, is still challenged by the world around him.
His godly powers don't hand everything to him or make things easier for him. In fact, his power makes things more difficult because he...much like Superman, walks around in a World of Cardboard.
And Neltharion's past also presents another challenge to him. It's been three years after the Cataclysm, and the destruction Deathwing had cause is still very fresh in people's minds. So many people are less likely to even befriend him or even trust him because of that past.
Varian, though having an uneasy truce with Neltharion, doesn't trust him but understands that it is better to have Neltharion on his side than not. But that doesn't make them best friends. Far from it.
Garrosh on the other hand knows that to conquer Azeroth completely, he has to completely conquer Neltharion. And he knows that using brute strength against Neltharion isn't the way to go. Neltharion cannot be bested by brute strength, only with intelligence and subtlety. And because of this, he can challenge Neltharion...the being who commands an entire planet.
But no one can challenge Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way.
And the same can be said about Godzilla, which is why so many G-fans state that Godzilla can smash Neltharion's face in.
But when these characters are taken out of the context within their universe and placed onto the playing field against Neltharion...both characters will be instantly crushed under Neltharion's 13 million ton fat ass.
I guess I wrote this because of that idiot who stated Neltharion felt more like Draco in Leather Pants to him. As in, a villain dumbed down for the fantasies of the female writer.
While I do gush on about how cute and adorable Neltharion is. Because...
Dah face!
I mean who wouldn't? But I've never soften anything when it came to Neltharion. He may be cute and adorable, but I still pretty much deliver a lot of pounding to himself despite his cuteness.
Because he's so friggin powerful, I need to find more creative ideas in how to challenge him.
Hell, that's a sign of a strong writer, a writer who creates a very powerful character, but is still able to challenge that character even by having antagonists who challenge said character, but also are less powerful than said character.
It's why I keep equating Neltharion and Garrosh's rivalry to Superman and Lex Luthor. Neltharion is being challenged by someone who is clearly his opposite. Garrosh in my stories is smarter, more subtle, and has loyal followers that can back him.
Neltharion is as subtle as a minstrel show appearing at the Million Man March.
HE'S NOT SUBTLE AT ALL! And he doesn't have many loyal followers.
He's lucky to have Malygos and the black dragons he's got.
So, there you go.
